Tuesday, July 10, 2012

July 7, 2012
I have devoted several columns in the past to John(20) and Agnes Grosvenor largely because of the mysterious marker erected by WE Talbott at Glenn to honor his "brother-in-law John Grosvenor and father, WR Talbott" There has been speculation as to whether that stone was an actual grave marker or a historical monument. This week we got a definitive answer: It is a historical marker. For sure, for sure. We know because the tombstone of John Grosvenor has been found! This week I received a picture of it from Darrell and have posted it on John(20)'s memorial. Go take a look. It had toppled and been buried for decades. The stone is of the "do-it-yourself" type. The stones (or hardened-clay) blanks were sold in country stores and the family or friends inscribed the name of the deceased and his vital statistics on them. It is fitting that the volunteer restoration crew had at least three members who are Great Great Grand Children of this man (Darrell Clendenin and the Jarrett brothers. The crew also found and refurbished the stone of Sarah M, the daughter of John and Agnes and it's pic is posted to her findagrave memorial. Y'all done real good, restoration crew! I also received pics of 10 UNKNOWN stones from Darrell. Some of these had probably lain in the ground for a century or more. Some have visible inscriptions that we may be able to decipher with some work. I have posted some of the restoration photos on the memorial of Stan Din which is a sort of personal alter ego/ bulletin board. Please take a look at them. It's easy! Just google "findagrave stan din". Your comments invited.
June 23, 2012
I hope you are all as happy as I to receive the recent letter from Pat Bowers of the Glenn Cemetery association. I was especially pleased to get the email adddresses of the board members. In case any of you mis-laid the letter or just skimmed through it, let me call your attention to one very important sentence in it which reads,
“Please make your check payable to: GLENN CEMETERY ASSOCIATION”
The last time I saw operating costs on the cemetery (several years ago) the annual expensess were on the order of 10 - 15 bucks per grave, and undoubtedly they have gone up since. There is the old saying that “you can’t take it with you” which in this case is wrong. Pay your grave maintenance up front and your funds will travel right along with you. $1500 to $2000 ought to get you paid up for a hundred years I would think. (But don’t forget to pay for grand-pop and the grand kids and for all those free-loading stiffs who get their grass cut at the communities expense)
I would like to call your attention to another piece of mail which I got… and I hope you did, too: “The Ava Citizen” , a monthly “shoe-string” newspaper. The editor is Diane (Gerler) Anderson who is an avid genealogist with 4765 findagrave entries in the last 15 months. She has completely photographed and documented Ava Evergreen. Her grand parents (Daniel and Lula (Campbell) Green are buried at Glenn . Think about it: The Grosvenor reunion in Ava. Diane Anderson, genealogist, editor of the Ava news-paper. We are MEANT for each other! The “Gathering in Glenn” to coincide with the Grosvenor Reunion! The Glenn Cemetery Association to show off the newly renovated cemetery and maybe take up donations (from “the others”, of course). The whole thing benefits Ava. To get “The Ava Citizen” for one year, email 12 bucks to avacitizen@yahoo.com.
If you haven’t been reading the findagrave bios of your ancestors, you are missing some great entertainment. If you have been reading them and not leaving flowers, Shame on you!

June 16, 2012
"The hard road" was paved, I believe, in 1933. It was originally Route 150 and later designated Route 3. Prior to the coming of the pavement it was "The Bluff Road" and it was merely a single-lane dirt road that wound along "under the bluff" from the Wye near Kinkaid Creek to Kaskaskia. Prior to that it was part of the Kaskaskia trail which the early settlers followed from Kentucky to Kaskaskia. The bluff road clung tightly to the higher ground near the bluff because most of the land from the bluff to the river was swamps. It, therefore, was very crooked. It was also extremely dusty in the summer and extremely muddy when it rained and absolutely miserable in the winter because the mud got churned up during the day and froze solid in large grooves and lumps at night. I walked the bluff road to school at Logan (1/4 mile north of Glenn Cemetery) in 1930, 1931, & 1932. It was a brutal experience. I was very young (5th birthday in late June, started to school in early September) I was clumsy. I was sickly. I was poorly dressed. I was sent to school mostly to get me out from under foot. My mother was dying of cancer. There was a younger sibling, Edna Mae, in the family. It was the time of the Great Depression and misery was upon us all. There was a hail storm that destroyed our crops and damaged our buildings. The price of corn dropped to 12 cents a bushel. On most cold days, I would stumble on the frozen mud or skid on the patches of ice and fall, throwing my lunch bucket into the ditch. I would get up crying and my brother Herb would let me go back home. On nice afternoons, when we got home, I would rush into the house and get Mom's permission to walk as far as the old walnut tree with Ruby Nell Grosvenor and the Claussen children. That was glorious!
Melissa Grosvenor checked in with me this week with offers of info on the "Southern Grosvenors". I can hardly wait.
Also, this week I received a real treasure trove of information from a person in St Louis using the name "Momstore" who is related to the Shields & Gannons and therefore indirectly to the Korandos. Momstore gave me corrections and additional information on 17 Korandos which I have applied to their memorials.
I have had a telephone conversation with Darrell and he says the restoration project at the cemetery is moving along nicely. All the stones between the main cemetery road and Route 3 are finished and this Monday the group will start on the other side of the road (where the Grosvenor graves are located).
June 9, 2012
Parker (21) Grosvenor's Obelisk:
The fourth side of Parker's stone is dedicated to his third wife Louticia (Keeton) and their childen. No individual stone has been found for Louticia. This is very puzzling. Surely one existed. I am awaiting the outcome of the ongoing restoration project. Although Parker and Louticia had three children, only the first, Charley, is listed on the obelisk and he does have a separate stone. Mattie and Edna were both alive when the obelisk was erected and they are not on it but each have individual stones. It should be noted that Louticia had seven children with Valentine Tabors before marrying Parker Grosvenor but apparently none are buried at Glenn. Evidently only Isaac and Emma were alive when Parker and Louticia married, and I believe they are buried at Houge.
So there stands this obelisk at Glenn... A monument to Parker (21) Grosvenor and his family. "The grand-daddy of us all". But it doen't tell the whole story. My mother had at least 23 siblings. Sixteen were Grosvenors and seven were Keetons. My sister, Anna (Saul) Clendenin who played this genealogy game pretty hard for several decades said Mom claimed 24 siblings. Did we miscount or did one get lost? Errors creep in. We strive for accuracy but continually have to admit to, and correct mistakes. And now is an opportune time to correct a couple I have made on this series about Parker Grosvenor's obelisk : (1) In my first column I stated that only five of Parker's children survived him; Fred, French, Frank. Mattie. and Edna. I inadvertently left out Mary "Mollie" Kessel, who lived until 1962 and is buried in Tower Grove in Murphysboro. (2) In last weeks column I said no stone had been found for Ferdinand Grosvenor and then I found a photo of his headstone in my files.

June 2, 2012
Grosvenor's Glenn
Parker Grosvenor's stone:

Another side of the Parker Grosvenor family obelisk is dedicated to
Parker's second wife Louisa Hiser and their children. However, all are not listed on the stone.
Here is a listing:
Louisa Hiser Grosvenor (1844 - 1878) On obelisk
Parker (22) Grosvenor (1865 - 1885)* On obelisk & has another stone
Infant son Grosvenor (1867 - 1867)* On Obelisk No other stone found
Fred Grosvenor (1868 - 1960)*
Ferdnand Grosvenor (1870 - 1890)* On obelisk No other stone found
Mary C. Grosvenor Kessel (1871 - 1962)*
Peter Kiefer Grosvenor (1873 - 1893)*On obelisk No other stone found
French Grosvenor (1874 - 1970)*
Frank Grosvenor (1878 - 1923)*
Louisa died "of comlications of childbirth" but it is not known that a child was actually born. None is listed on the obelisk and no tombstone found. The infant son born 1867 (and believed to have been named Levi ) was inscribed on the obelisk. Of greater speculation is the missing stone of Peter Kiefer. He was an adult and surely there was a stone. Darrell
said there were stone fragments in the area.
Fred , Mary, French and Frank were still alive at the obelisk was erected and their names are not on it. It is tempting to say their names should be added but then the problem becomes "Where?"
For pictures of the aforementioned gravestones please visit the appropriate findagrave memorials.
May 26, 2012
The mysterious stone of Parker (21) Grosvenor.
If you have not visited the findagrave memorial of Parker(21) and
Eliza Jane (Herring) Grosvenor and their children you should do so...
immediately! It will take several of my columns to properly cover
this subject without repeating bios.
The stone of Parker was erected sometime after his death when only
five of his seventeen children survived, namely Fred, French, Frank,
Mattie, and Edna. Since Mattie was mentally incompetent, only four
participated in the design of the marker.
First a description of the marker: It is a large up-right stone of the
type historians call an "obelisk" On one side is engraved the name of
Parker Grosvenor. On each of the other three sides is the name of a
wife and below each wife's name are the names of her children.
Individual headstones stretch out from each side. Several fragments
of a headstone have been seen here recently and some detective work
is needed to determine whose headstone or headstones have been
broken and to restore them to their proper position.
What is interesting is who is ingraved on the obelisk and who is not,
and who got an individual stone and who did not. For instance, why
was first-born son John, who grew to adulthood and produced
decendants, NOT on the obelisk but Infant Grosvenor whose birth
killed the mother WAS? John's widow and children were alive at the
time the stone was put up.
There are other mysteries on the other sides of the obelisk which I
will discuss in later columns. Meanwhile, visit the memorials, leave
flowers, and help me figger. And while visiting , click on the "photos"
tab at the top of each memorial and see a really good view of the
Parker Grosvenor ON obelisk. No individual stone found
Eliza Jane On obelisk. Also has individual Tombstone
John 1855 - 1901 NOT on obelisk but has individual stone
Sarah A. 1857 - 1875 IS on obelisk AND has individual stone
William 1860 - 1860 IS on obelisk. No individual stone found
Albert 1861 - 1881 IS on obelisk. No individual stone found
Infant Son 1863 - 1863 IS on obelisk. No individual stone found

May 19, 2012

Grosvenor's Glenn
The importance of leaving findagrave flowers.
So why should you leave a flower? First of all because findagave is a permanent record and the flower is a token of respect for the life of the person who is memorialized in that record. It says, in effect: "I know this person lived and their life was of importance to me." You may leave a note and express much, much more. You can tell why the person was important to you, profess your love for the person, address them personally ("I miss you so much, Mother") or recite an incident ("I remember when you built a sled for me..."). Leaving flowers is the digital equivalent of sending flowers to a funeral and signing the guest register. EXCEPT that the digital flowers are FREE and PERMANENT. (check back in 75 years and verify) The flowers you sent to the funeral were expensive and went ito the garbage can shortly after the funeral. If some of you are scared off by findagrave's requirement that you register before posting.... don't be! They won't try to sell you anthing and no salesman will call. The registration is merely to prevent obscenities and objectionable material from being posted. Your user name will appear alongside the flower picture and it WILL leave a trail to your "Contributor Page" where you can leave as much (or as little) info as you wish to provide and where persons following the digital trail can leave messages for you. That linkage is an excellent way to find long-lost cousins and to have them find you.
Let me give you an example: Martha Virginia Metcalf Grosvenor , my Aunt Martha, spouse of Fred Grosvenor. She was the mother of 12 children. I knew her, her spouse, and the 5 sons and 3 daughters who grew to adulthood. I knew a bunch of her grand children and I now communicate with some of her great-grand-children. How many decendendents might she have? Yet a visit to her memorial gives no indication that ANYONE cared or remembered! Her children have all died.
Or go find little George Cotton, son of Abigail Grosvenor Cotton who died in Buffalo, New York in 1794 at age 21 months and lay in his grave for 218 years before a Grosvenor (me) visited him.
Remember.... if you don't visit other peoples' graves they more than likely won't visit yours.


May 13, 2012

A rather frustrating week due to equipment failures. My home A/C failed on the first hot day of the year. That, of course happens to a lot of people. Which makes it difficult to get a repairman. And then there was the usual wait for parts. But it is up and running now. And then there is the computer problem. I don't know what is going on there. My yahoo mailbox failed. It continued to COUNT the mail but refused to list it. I finally gave up and went to Google. It took me the better part of two days to get registered. (Google ALWAYS asks what user name you want and then ALWAYS says that user name is already in use and suggests another which you don't want and couldn't remember. Then they repeat the sme pocedure with the password) When I finally got gmail(Google) set up, they got yahoo to transfer my yahoo mail to Google AND THEN my yahoo mailbox began operating for ME again.
This week I managed to get Glenn and Mollie Ann Howie, who are buried at Jefferson Barracks, entered into findagrave, and Mollie Ann linked to her parents, Mack and Lorene Jarrett, and thru them to the other 24 generations of Grosvenors.
I continue to urge my readers to visit these memorials, and to leave flowers.


May 5, 2012

   I got a real helping hand last week from Tom Underwood in Arizona
and as a result have connected the Arizona Grosvenors to the Glenn
Grosvenors on findagrave. Also he gave me enough info to create
memorials for John and Genevieve Grosvenor in Milstadt and connect
them to the other Grosvenors. My readers are invited (even requested!)
to visit these memorials and proof-read, add pictures, submit a bio or
whatever. As I mentioned before, the easiest way to get into the
findagrave system is to use GOOGLE and search for "findagrave Fred
Grosvenor" and once there, click on everything in sight... including the
names of people. Also PLEASE click on "Leave a flower and a Note".
It's free and nobody will try to sell you anything.
This week I have been doing Jarrett-Grosvenors. It is complex.
Consider: Mrs Sarah Mohler Grosvenor (wife of John(22) Grosvenor)
married Henry Silas "Si" Jarrett who was the widower of Louella Gray
and they were the parents of Marie Jarrett. Marie married Fred "Larry"
Grosvenor and both died in Arizona. BUT Larry's sister Lorene married
Miles "Mack" Jarrett. I have not yet been able to locate the burial
placeof Henry Silas Jarrett, which is essential for sticking this whole
picture together. Does anyone know?
Computer problems: My yahoo incoming mail is afflicted and I don't
know yet what I can do about it. Here's a work around method:
GOOGLE "findagrave Stan Din" and you will arrive at my 'stand-in'
page at Glenn. Click on "Leave a flower and a note". Every day I will
drop by, smell the flowers and read the notes!

Grosvenor's Glenn   
April 30, 2012
Charley B Grosvenor. His tombstone stands at Glenn. He was born 28 Jun 1893, died 14 Jul 1894. But the question arose: Whose child was he? I assumed he belonged to Fred and Martha and listed him as such. However, on later checking I find that Anna (Emert) was born 3 months after Charley B. Therefore he was not the son of Fred and Martha so I assumed he belonged to French and Nettie. BUT on another cross-checking last week I found that French and Nettie were not married in 1893! Then who??? Ah! John and Sarah! He fits! Home at last! But NOW, That poses another problem. Who is the baby in the picture with John and Sarah? If the picture was taken before July 1894 the baby is Charley B. If it was taken after then the baby is Ethel! Can we determine wwhen the picture was taken? Possibly. My dad told me a story once about the pictures. He said a photographer in a covered wagon toured the countryside once and almost every family had their pictures taken then. Look at the pix of Fred & martha, John and Sarah, Parker and Louticia, the Parker Grosvenor house with French? sitting in the window. Look at some of the Saul pictures. The William & Sarah family on their front porch. Guess people's ages. Look at vegetation for time of year. Are there other peoples' photos somewhere.? Finally we need to check Glenn cemetery for the location of Charleyy B's stone. Is it close to Fred's , French's or John's stone? C'mon Sherlocks!